Episode 37 – The Mindset of a Champion: Wrestling, Leadership, and Storytelling with Ben Hatta

Todd Bertsch: 0:05

Welcome to the Bolt Podcast. I’m Todd Bertsch, keynote speaker, entrepreneur and mental fitness coach. I’m here to help you unlock your leadership potential and ignite your personal growth. On the Bolt, my guests and I will dive into inspiring stories of transformation, showing how small shifts in mindset can lead to life-changing benefits. We’ll explore strategies for overcoming challenges, building high-performance habits and leading with confidence. If you’re ready to embrace a growth mindset and unlock your full potential, then let’s ignite your spark. Today, Jesuit dives into Ohio’s fierce high school wrestling rivalry, a story Ben personally experienced. As a former St Edward wrestler With a degree from the University of Pennsylvania and a background in NCAA Division, I wrestling Ben brings deep insights on resilience, leadership and personal growth. Listeners, get ready to get pumped up, Ben. Welcome to the Bolt Podcast, my friend.

Ben Hatta: 1:25

Thank you very much. Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Todd.

Todd Bertsch: 1:28

Oh man, it’s so good to see you again. I love what you’re doing. Like I said, I just finished the series Class of Dynasties last night. Dude, just incredible, just an incredible job. And we’ll dig into that, but I just wanted to say congrats, and it’s been fun getting to know you, and you and I have a lot in common, which is which is really cool, so so let’s dive in, man let’s, let’s get into it yeah, let’s do it.

Todd Bertsch: 1:54

So wrestling now. This show is not about wrestling per se, but there are a lot of wonderful anecdotes, wonderful lessons to be learned from wrestling, and certainly wrestling is in your bloodline right.

Todd Bertsch: 2:11

Deep runs deep going back to your grandfather, your father, who, from what what I read, were both legends in their own rights, and then your brother was a wrestler as well, and then you also. So wrestling has been a part of your life from the day you were born, absolutely yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about just wrestling in general in your family, because your grandfather and your father have very interesting stories. Maybe just talk about the influence they had on you and wrestling and how that you know how that’s led to you getting into wrestling and and later doing documentaries. Being the wrestling documentary guy really, yeah, thanks.

Ben Hatta: 2:54

Yeah, wrestling is definitely been a part of my life from day one. It started with my grandfather. Like you mentioned, he started the sport of wrestling in Japan. He came to America and learned the sport, studied it, brought it back to Japan in the 30s and started wrestling there, and my father was, you know, offspring and a product of what he was doing, and so he excelled in wrestling in Japan and one of the things my grandfather started doing was importing these Japanese high school wrestlers to go to college in America and they landed at Oklahoma State, which was kind of a dynasty in the 60s and 70s and 50s, 60s, 70s, and that’s where my parents met.

Ben Hatta: 3:38

My dad was a national champ at Oklahoma State and then he went on to become basically a lifelong coach for world teams, olympic teams, high school teams, and then he taught us how to wrestle, and my brother first and then me, and then that sort of led through high school and then I was able to achieve some things in high school which led me to go to college and wrestle in school at university. So it started from the beginning and then what I did is after college, I took a journey to Los Angeles and started my career in entertainment and reality television and storytelling. And when I got to a certain point I think maybe in 2011, those things kind of merged with our first documentary, team Foxcatcher, which we did for Netflix, which was based on a true story. That happened when I was in school at University of Pennsylvania, so it was about a murder from John DuPont, this billionaire who was sponsoring USA Wrestling at the time and ended up killing Olympic gold medalist Dave Schultz. Our coaches were Team Foxcatcher. My dad used to take us to Team Foxcatcher. That’s how I found out about the University of Pennsylvania and went to school there.

Ben Hatta: 4:53

And then, because of the success of that film, we were contacted to do another film about a Team Foxcatcher wrestler named Kurt Angle who went on to win a gold medal that year in 96 with a broken neck and then became the first WWE pro wrestler who had actually won a wrestling gold medal and then he broke his neck multiple times after that and developed an addiction and his story is just insane.

Ben Hatta: 5:17

So we ended up doing his documentary. That was another wrestling story and then, as you mentioned, our last one that we just released recently is Clash of Dynasties, which is a high school wrestling story from the 90s, depicting two high schools that went at it for a decade and were the best in the state and in the country, and I just happened to be part of one of those teams and was in the middle of this melee and witnessed just everything. To a certain point, I think, maybe pandemic time, when everyone was kind of resetting, a few of us came up with, you know, let’s do a documentary on that, on that decade, on that battle of you know, these two dynasties, so Walsh, jesuit being the other one. So what we did was we decided to turn it into a series instead of a documentary and we released it on our own and, like you mentioned, you attended our premieres and so, yeah, it’s out now.

Ben Hatta: 6:12

And like you mentioned, this isn’t a wrestling podcast. This is, I think, more of a life podcast in a sense. It’s about you know, just there’s a lot of things that you get out of it, but I think that’s what the sport of wrestling is. Wrestling is sort of a um, a story of life. You know it’s about getting knocked down. It’s about getting back up again. It’s about you know it’s only you out there, right? No matter how many friends, family, loved ones, coaches, teammates you have, you’re the only one that can perform and do. You know what you need to do so. And failure comes and wins come, and it’s just about getting out there and putting one foot in front of the other and training to get better 1% every day, and that translates into many sports. So I appreciate you having me on and I’d love to hear what you thought of the series.

Todd Bertsch: 7:03

Yeah, boy, there’s a lot to unpack there, so I think the series was incredible, so highly recommend. Actually, I recommend all the docus that you’ve put together. Like Team Foxcatcher, I watched that before we spoke when I first met you. It’s just an insane life story, so it just happens to be about wrestlers on this.

Todd Bertsch: 7:26

You know this farm, right, it’s just. The whole thing was just crazy. But it is interesting, right to see how this, this journey, brought you to clash of dynasties which, again, you, you were in, you were part of that clash and what’s interesting is that you’re not really in the film.

Ben Hatta: 7:45

No, no, I actually did that. I tried to limit myself as much as possible. I like to be behind the camera, I like to direct and produce, but I knew that I was part of the story and I was right in the middle of it, you know, when everything was kind of transforming and going from one dynasty to the other and I faced off against one of the main guys from their team. That really epitomized who Walsh Jesuit was, and so there was no real way I could have taken myself out of the story. I just tried to make sure I didn’t necessarily affect the story and I told it as truthfully so it wasn’t one-sided and tried to keep that balance. So that was purposely done, that I wasn’t in it as much as possible, just out of pure uncomfortability.

Todd Bertsch: 8:32

It’s an absolutely very interesting story and it’s much deeper than wrestling. I’ll tell you what, though I got chills many times goosebumps. But when the ref passed away during the match and you have these two dynasties that literally hate each other, like hate each other but have a deep respect for each other, when you see them circle around on the mat together, hand in hand, to take a moment, right, that was. That’s the epitome of sport and respect.

Ben Hatta: 9:10

that that’s the one piece that I took away and I said, wow, this is the moment right here yeah, and that was kind of the pinnacle of and it’s funny because that was two weeks after dave schultz had passed, you know, and he had gotten shot, uh, and murdered and so that, and it was the Olympic year as well, so it was the same year as Kurt Angle’s thing. That really was, like you said, the the. When I say pinnacle, it’s because there was a shift in mindset for both teams where the you know dynasty of St Ed’s, when these young upstarts start coming in and start nipping at their heels, there’s no worry. In a sense it’s like there’s a few of them it’s not a big deal where the Walsh guys looked at St Ed’s with hatred and the enemy and we got to go take them down and then, as they started knocking down the wall to the castle, you know, those guys were like, oh, there’s respect here, these guys are actually doing it.

Ben Hatta: 10:11

And when they got in and then they were out, those guys who were coming from St Ed’s, coming back up, they were the ones that started to hate the Walsh guys because they had taken out their older brothers, they had taken out the guys that they looked up to as unbeatable. So in that switch there was that moment where there was actual hate, one that started out as, like, respect from these guys, oh, they’re actually doing pretty well, good for them. And then, holy cow, what did they done? And then, you know, we hate these guys now because we got it. They took what we had. And then the same thing on the other side. It was like we hate these guys because we need that fuel to the fire to get in to where they are. And then, when they’re in there, they’re like they started to have a little bit of respect of like, oh, this is how they did it, wow, blah, blah, blah. And then they started to see them attack again and it was still that, that hatred there.

Ben Hatta: 11:07

So when that referee passed, you know don ferris, uh, you know he and everyone respected him. It was this moment and I think sunny marchetti stated it best where, like these, two warrior teams come together out of love and it was a moment of me, you know this heated, you know battle that it went beyond the team. I think he was actually probably the only ref that night Usually there’s two referees, so he might’ve just felt the pressure too of what was going and there were thousands of fans packed into that dome at Walsh, like they got up to like 3000 fans into like a 2000 seat place. So those atmospheres were tense and electric and exciting and awesome just in itself, you know, and the hatred in an animosity built up in that confined space from both sides was intense off the mat.

Ben Hatta: 11:58

I think that’s what we try to do with all of our documentaries is, and you know, maybe going back to what we said earlier about the podcast, that it’s not just about wrestling, it’s about life and what are these other things that these people are getting over? With Angle it was pain, and then with Foxcatcher it was the price of gold, like, what are you willing to sacrifice in order to achieve your goals? You know, no matter how, you know volatile the environment might be and this last one is a clash of dynasties is, how do you deal with loss, but not losses on the mat, you know losses off the mat and how do you rebound from that? And how do you, when you get knocked down, how do you get back up again, right, and those lessons of. And then there’s deeper ones too, when you get back to the death of Coach Howard Ferguson. But before that he gave the playbook to his enemy and said I know we need to talk.

Todd Bertsch: 12:51

I was waiting to talk about that. We’ve got to talk about that because that is absolutely insane. So you have this dynasty of St Edward. I don’t know how many at that point six, eight, ten state champions Ten at that point.

Ben Hatta: 13:04

yeah, six, eight, ten state champions Ten.

Todd Bertsch: 13:05

At that point, yeah, nobody, I mean, you just knew that was. You know you had Iowa for college and you had St Ed’s for high school, right, you just knew those were the dynasties of wrestling. And then here you have this coach, you know, coming up in Walsh, jesuit Bill Barger, and he just Ferguson. He asked and he said sure, I’ll give you, literally gives him the physical playbook, go ahead, do it. Who does that, right? Who does that?

Ben Hatta: 13:32

I think your podcast does that. You gave me a book after we had hung out and you said here’s some knowledge.

Todd Bertsch: 13:38

If you want to learn or feel the way I’m feeling, then here what you’re not my competitor, true, true, and it’s not your secret formula.

Ben Hatta: 13:48

But what it is is, I think, that when you are a competitor or you get to a point where you’ve done everything, or maybe accomplished a lot of things, you want someone to challenge you, you want someone to try to push you further, or you want to spread your knowledge and you’re want to help others who are trying to get where you’re getting. And that formula hasn’t changed. Like you said. Like I said, you gave me a book that made me smarter and a better person after reading it, because it made you smarter and a better person after reading it. And you’re like here’s some information, check this out, learn it. And that’s what Howard was doing.

Ben Hatta: 14:28

I think he got to a point and when some guys and a lot of people were maybe not willing to do that, you know, put in all the work and challenge somebody who’s the best at what they’re doing and say I’m going to beat you one day. I don’t know how it’s going to happen, but I’m going to beat you Because how do you get where you’re going and what did you do to get where you’re at?

Todd Bertsch: 14:48

here.

Ben Hatta: 14:49

Here’s what I did you know, and I think what we always learned and they always taught in St Ed’s was like people can give you the formula, people can give you the recipe, but you got to put in the work and you’ve got to do it yourself.

Ben Hatta: 15:02

That’s not the, that’s not just, it’s not going to happen just because you have the book with all the secrets Like even when we used to get by with like clip notes and stuff like that you still have to read clip notes, right, you still have to read the summary of a book in order to get around reading the whole book. You still have to read something and absorb some and retain some of that knowledge. So, but yeah, I think that lesson of you know your budding enemy coming up to you and saying, hey, man, how did you win and how do you do all these things, and you know the king saying here, here’s the playbook, here’s the formula. But he went out and he did it. He took the formula of building a youth program to feed into, you know, a high school and train those kids. He trained those youth kids like Ferguson was training his high school kids. So he took it just to a whole, not like um, ferguson was copying what Gable was doing at Iowa, all the way down to this, to the workout uniform.

Todd Bertsch: 15:58

Everything’s been done right. We’re all. We’re all caught. But if you can do that and then make it your own and even add your own flavor to it. And yeah, and Bill took it to a whole different level. Yeah and they were all stealing from each other.

Ben Hatta: 16:14

It’s just a really cool story.

Todd Bertsch: 16:16

You just don’t hear about that. But what I love what I love Ben is it comes full circle. So he gives them the playbook, he goes out, he does it. They he gives them the playbook, he goes out, he does it. They come and create this dynasty themselves. So they start competing with St Ed, they start beating them eventually, and then Walsh Jesuit goes co-ed and they get bumped down to Division II and St Ed’s they hate it because they’ve lost their rivalry, Like they fueled them right. So here they are Now they have it’s Easy Street. They’re just crushing people left and right, but they lost that fuel right. That was that competition that was making them even better. So that’s I don’t know, to end that way.

Ben Hatta: 17:02

I don’t know it was really interesting to me.

Ben Hatta: 17:06

I think it’s sad. Really it was sad. Blair Academy eventually came in and took that place and became the new challenge and the new dynasty that went on to win multiple national championships. Now there’s new teams that are coming in to take their throne that they’ve had for 20 plus years. But whenever there is that change, you know you fought and I guarantee every single rivalry has that. You know the Mike Tyson, muhammad Ali’s, the Lombardi’s, even the Peyton Manning’s and the Brady’s Like when they say goodbye to their enemy after so long, there is some sadness there.

Ben Hatta: 17:44

I guarantee you Bird and Magic and McEnroe and Bjorn they love when they come together because they know what each other went through, right, they know what it was like to go to war with each other and push each other to be better than they were, because they knew that the other one was trying to get, you know, edge on them. And you know that’s what Walsh was for St Ed’s and that’s what St Ed’s was for Walsh. So when you lost that for that one or two years before Blair really started challenging, it’s like we have no one else to play with, right. And same thing for Walsh. It was like, well, we can beat everyone in Division II. We want to be back up in Division I and so, yeah, I think you wish, and I think maybe that’s why this story, this series, came about, was just reliving that moment, retelling that story 30 years later because it might not happen again.

Ben Hatta: 18:34

I really did try to paint the picture of the 90s and how it was different and all the different things that were going on and the transition of things that were happening wars, dynasties from the Lakers to the Bulls, you know, dynasties from that were fading, from the Dallas Cowboys, you know, into the other teams that were coming along. So transition of presidents, all that kind of stuff. That really was just, you know, I mean you lived through it. It was a transitional time music film, you know politics. So trying to set that stage maybe for a younger audience put you back in that. And then we were just lucky enough that we were at that realm of the VHS, so there was the potential of finding all that footage. It was really just grassrooting, getting these guys to go through their parents’ attic or go through these bins in their basement or whatever we could find in archivals in the high schools, to just gather all that stuff.

Todd Bertsch: 19:37

How many tapes did you end up having?

Ben Hatta: 19:39

you think, oh, I still have some of them I need to send back. I have roughly four or 500, maybe you know it was definitely a thousand plus hours of just that, plus it, plus all the stuff we shot with the interviews and the extra B-roll.

Todd Bertsch: 19:55

Right your own footage yeah, lots of B-roll and interviews yeah, we did, yeah, Like 50 interviews times two hours each, you know.

Ben Hatta: 20:03

And so that alone, Plus the most important part, was Brian Brakeman and what WVIZ did when he broadcast a lot of those matches and a lot of those tournaments was high quality television. You know production footage that because the teams are really good, they were focused and featured a lot in this, these films. So, again, I probably wouldn’t have maybe taken on the project if it didn’t have these two things of knowing that there was a lot of footage out there and that there were a lot of stories that weren’t wrestling stories you know that I could capture an audience.

Todd Bertsch: 20:45

Yeah, well, yeah, and you said before you knew take. You had to get committed before right. So even just the commitment to go and search and find.

Ben Hatta: 20:55

Yes, yes, the story was. The biggest starter for me is knowing that there were other elements than just these two wrestling teams that were great and one won and one lost. The David Goliath story was definitely there for sure, definitely there for sure. But what was what? What were the human stories and what were the lessons that could be learned Then, other than, you know, giving your best and doing, you know, challenging, you know, the, the, the giant, so, but, yeah, but not knowing what was out there, necessarily, and trying to rally all the troops and everyone to go digging in their personal spaces to find the stuff and finding out about floods and house fires and moves, and you know garage sales and all this kind of stuff where you’re like, so it was like some places, like finding a needle in the haystack, you know, because, right, we knew the fight happened but the broadcast didn’t show it so we needed to find it on home footage.

Ben Hatta: 21:56

So who had it? And there was some detective work of like you’d see someone in one footage of a guy with a camera in there and you try to find out who that guy was and he was obviously shooting it, you know wow, so where’s?

Ben Hatta: 22:11

waldo exactly, and so we were able to do that for a few of them actually, where we were able to pinpoint names of people 100, I mean, wow, there was one, yeah, someone mentioned an elderly couple in an interview that that filmed a lot of their matches and gave them individual tapes and we were able to just track down the name People search the name, find a number, reach out, put it on a landline to an answering machine. That then got a phone. This Is this, similar to other docuseries you’ve created.

Todd Bertsch: 22:55

Like this type of let’s go find footage? Is this kind of a similar thing? Is this the process?

Ben Hatta: 23:03

Yeah, because the thing is that the more footage you have, I look at it as like painting. My dad’s an artist, so I look at it as like making a painting on an empty canvas, blank canvas. So the more paint, the more footage. The different types of media that you have, those are the paints, and then you can obviously paint a better picture with more colors and more footage. And then, if you don’t have it, you’ve got to recreate it or create it, and so that just takes time, effort, uh, and the more than you can, as authentic, yeah, and the more that you can paint with the original colors, right, and so that’s why I didn’t want to use a narrator.

Ben Hatta: 23:44

I wanted the players to tell the cast, to tell the story themselves and take you through it, versus this voice of god or some narrator telling you know. And so I wanted to use as much and as varied. I tried not to use duplicates of things. Whenever possible, even if it was the same thing, I tried to use it from a different angle or from a different shot, just to give it a different flavor. Because I’ve seen and worked on document or even shows where you don’t have a lot to work with, so you have to use the same thing over and over again and it just gets repetitive and boring. So because we had so much, I wanted to try to use as much as possible and we had so many cast of characters, I had to figure out how to tell that story as well. How do I get everyone in and have their story as well as the overall story, have a beginning, middle and end, and not just have them in for a second and then it’s like where’d that guy go? Again, right, and who was he and why was he in it, right? So there were a lot of challenges that I had to sort of figure out and overcome.

Ben Hatta: 24:40

Yes, to answer your question, any time that we’ve worked on any docu documentary, I think we’ve had access to a lot of like, even foxcatcher. What was great about dupont was, you know he was, he was crazy so he filmed everything. He had someone follow him around with a camera because he believed in other things that were happening. But there was that footage and he commissioned a lot of that stuff. And then obviously, usa Wrestling and a lot of these big events were on Olympic broadcast and things like that. So, yeah, whenever I take on a project, I think it before diving into it. It’s knowing, obviously, the story, but what, what do we have to work with? Because the less that we have, the more you have to make and create and produce, uh, and then it just becomes you know, if it’s too much animation or recreation, it becomes a different story in a sense.

Todd Bertsch: 25:33

So, um, yeah it was an undertaking, but yeah, I’m glad, for sure, yeah, so yeah, to be a producer of a docu-series. A lot of commitment, devotion, dedication, similar to wrestling right so I’m creating that team you know, right, right and creating that team.

Todd Bertsch: 25:51

Well, let’s talk about wrestling and just the life lessons that can be learned, that you learned, I wrestled as well. I wouldn’t say quote unquote. I was a wrestler like you and the guys on the show. It was interesting for me to go back and so I was at Hoban another Catholic school competitor of Walsh and to watch Marcus Malika. So I faced him. I think it was 132 weight class and that he was just a freaking beast. So I’m watching back and I’m flashing this back through like going back to that time. I’m thinking, man, I didn’t even want to go out on that mat. Just, this guy was two-time state champion in high school, two-time NCAA champion, so to know that he reached that height made me feel a little bit better about getting beat up pretty good by him.

Todd Bertsch: 26:39

I mean he was just. I mean you could physically like he was just a beast. I mean he stood out right. Nobody really had that size, the muscles, the cuts. He was just. He was a hell of a wrestler.

Todd Bertsch: 26:55

So anyhow, it was interesting for me. It was a little personal because I could go back and again wrestling was more of a I don’t want to say a fun thing. A lot of people would probably say really, but it wasn’t my main sport. So I was soccer, baseball, and then I wrestled to really stay in shape and my best friend at the time was kind of our best wrestler who went to state so and his brother was our coach. So I was kind of around it and it got infused into me for that reason. But I was never really that good, but I learned a lot.

Todd Bertsch: 27:28

It really helped me build resilience and it’s interesting, you know, this dynasty is focused on the team aspect of wrestling right, where you do add up the points and there is a winner. But this is a one-to-one sport and there are many, especially in high school right, and I was thinking about this last night. I think maybe track field right, there’s one, but other than that it’s it’s, you know it’s, it’s really a. You know, the most of them are team sports, um, where you’re playing together as a team, like really physically playing together, not just adding points at the end as a team.

Todd Bertsch: 28:09

Um. So to go out there and, you know, to last six minutes of your life, it feels like an hour right, especially if you’re not in shape. So, yeah, the life lessons I mean for me it was building resilience, stepping out of my comfort zone and just knowing that that’s not me, man. I got to go out there. So I’m either going to get embarrassed, I’m going to stare at the lights, or I’m gonna pin somebody. And pinning somebody although I didn’t have many of those, oh damn, that felt good just a few of them I remember, and it’s like man, that was all me.

Todd Bertsch: 28:44

Mano to mano, you’re done. You know, especially pinning, somebody winning is great, but the pin, there’s nothing like the pin to hear that, you know, to hear that hand hit the mat. So, anyhow, so you know I shared my story. But yeah, so in terms of you, obviously your lineage has been in this forever. It’s been in your life. What lessons does Ben Hada have from wrestling?

Ben Hatta: 29:10

Leadership lessons, it’s funny that you were more on soccer and did wrestling for you know, just staying in shape as I did. The opposite, I was a better wrestler but I loved soccer and I love the teamwork of soccer. I love being on a team, you know, because wrestling was the spotlight you only. But the lessons that I learned from wrestling far outweighed the lessons that I learned from soccer, in a sense, like the teamwork was great and the skills and the footwork and the stamina you know and communication with other people on a team can’t take those away. But the, like you said, the resilience and the ownership of what you put in is what you’re going to get out. How hard you work are the rewards that you’re going to reap. You know, and that no one else can help you. People can help you but when it comes down to it, it’s really just you. People can champion you, people can cheer you on, people can give you tips and you can learn from them, but you’ve got to put all that stuff sort of into action and I think that transfers 100% into life. No matter what you’re doing, you know if you’re in a company, if you find out you’ve got an illness, right, that’s when you feel like the most, like alone in a sense, where you’re like people can pat you on, you know, give you food and flowers and all this stuff and all this support, but you’re like I’m the one that’s got to go through this, right, I’m the one that’s got to do this. So that’s where those real life lessons from an individual sport and, like you mentioned, you know there are anyone that like swimming, tennis, squash, boxing, any of the martial arts where it’s really just you you have to develop that mindset of you’re competing against yourself even though you’re competing against someone else. But wrestling is one of those ones of all the martial arts, where you’re physically touching someone, where you’re physically trying to take someone down and they’re physically trying to take you down.

Ben Hatta: 31:06

And that is also, I think, a life lesson. Right, life is going to try to take you down. You’re going to run into things and you’re going to trip and you’re going to fall and you’re going to have to get back up again, but you’re going to have to also physically, just get yourself back up again. That’s just a metaphor of life and I think you know, if you’ve been on the bottom and you know on your back almost getting pinned and you’ve had to fight off your back. You know you fight like someone’s trying to kill you or you’re, you know. I remember one coach who said I think that you’re being buried alive right, and you want to, you got to get out, right. So that is that mentality of when you do hit rock bottom at some point. You’ve got to have that switch that said I’ve got to get up, no matter what. I’ve just got to keep fighting until the whistle blows. And in life the whistle doesn’t blow until the end right.

Ben Hatta: 31:55

So those are probably two of the main life lessons is that what you get out of it is what you put into it and that it’s really just you. And to never really stop fighting. And then, as I started to put this series together, I started to obviously realize more and more of these life lessons and I started to see the other side of the coin from what another team was doing, that was trying to be the best versus being the best and trying to stay the best. There’s a different mentality to that. Right, you’ve got to set higher goals. You’ve got to set goals that you maybe don’t think you can attain or reach. But if you set them lower or at that bar you and you don’t reach them, then you’re below. But if you set them higher and you don’t reach them, you might have actually passed where you thought you were going to go.

Ben Hatta: 32:41

You know, and bill barger set the loftiest of goals. Right, take down the number one team in the country and I have nothing. I’m starting from nothing. So how do I do that? And and in five 10 year period, he did it. And there were teams that had been going on for decades that still can’t do it. So I think those are some of the things that I’ve learned as starting putting the series together is that there were bigger lessons that I maybe learned that I didn’t necessarily think about until I looked back on it. You know, not the biggest one, which I think coach ferguson, you know, preached every day coach herbis preached, which was also printed, basically in coach ferguson’s book the edge, which I think we’ve spoken about, which you know was, yes, the greatest book of all time right, dude, this book weighs like 100 pounds.

Ben Hatta: 33:33

Oh yeah, Look at how it came in.

Todd Bertsch: 33:36

It came to me already like this and I love it, but this is a great leadership book. Yes.

Ben Hatta: 33:43

I have to say.

Todd Bertsch: 33:44

Ben, I turned the page this morning and I come into a page devoted to OJ Simpson about honesty, loyalty and respect. So it does you know, time things happen.

Ben Hatta: 33:56

There are some dated quotes, but the quote itself, the weight of the quote, doesn’t necessarily dissipate, maybe, the person’s character who gave the bite changes. But there is some weight and poignancy to what they say. And it’s funny because when I took on this project, I thought back to because taking on a project, like you said before it is, it’s a mission, right, it is an undertaking. It is years of your life of dedication, and so I followed the path that Coach Ferguson lays out in the edge, which was transfused in us through St in the edge, which was, you know, transfused in us through St Ed’s wrestling, was, if you’re going to, you know, make a commitment to something, you’ve got to state it and you’ve got to tell other people that this is what you’re doing. And these are all lessons of just like goal setting and things like that. But this is where I learned it at St Ed’s of you know, tell other people what you’re going to do. You know, hold yourself to that commitment. You know, write it down and yourself to that commitment, you know, write it down. And you know, just one day at a time.

Ben Hatta: 35:00

All these different things I learned from the book the Edge. There were quotes that were all around the St Ned’s Wrestling Room and on the walls that were from different, you know, athletes, politicians, actors, whatever. That just gave inspiration, gave motivation, and that I needed to find, that I needed to go back to my roots of okay, when I was at that pinnacle of this story, what was I doing? What were the influences in my life? And the edge was one of them, and it was Coach Ferguson speaking to us about here’s what other people did, here’s what heroes or famous or accomplished people have done. Here’s what they say on how to get to where they are. You know, and I think that is a life lesson that I learned, I relearned through the series, because of knowing the passing on the playbook, right, ferguson was saying I’ve been here, I’ve accomplished this, right. If you want to do it too, here are my words, here are my ideas. If you follow these, when you’re low or when you feel like you can’t do it, go back to the playbook. And if you don’t think it can be done, someone else has done it and they use this to do it.

Ben Hatta: 36:11

So this formula so that was another thing too of there is a formula, if you think about it, to a dynasty, when you look at these two dynasties and you compare them to the Yankees or the L, those things fell apart, or the alumni of those teams stopped, you know, hanging around the facility. Those dynasties crumbled for a little bit, but the good ones, the big ones, they just needed to spark again a little bit and they were reignited back into that dynasty. The lakers, the celtics, you know, those are good. The yankees are a good example, right, because they’ll have a few off years, you know, but they’ll win the world series again, you know. And there are some teams that have only won one, right. So there is a formula to greatness, you know, you just got to put in the work and follow it. And the one good thing about st ed’s mean, over their time period they had only like four coaches, right.

Todd Bertsch: 37:25

Well, that goes back to great I think great leadership yeah.

Ben Hatta: 37:28

Two people steering the helm, yeah.

Ben Hatta: 37:31

And also, when Coach Ferguson died, he left that playbook behind for these other coaches that were there. He left that playbook behind for these other coaches that were there and even the students of him knew how to follow and knew the plays right. So, like a company you want to create a great company, you’ve got to create that sort of Bible. That is your infrastructure and if you get sick you can hand that off to your COO or the next person down and they can follow that playbook and keep the train on the tracks right. As soon as that information or that leadership dies and goes, that’s where it’s like where is this ship sailing, right?

Todd Bertsch: 38:07

so right coach urbis was able though yes, yeah, yeah, you know, not just a playbook, but also a culture, like you at saint ed and what bill did at walsh um, and with a company. I mean it’s really you could. Yeah, you can create the playbook right and you can pass it down, but you still need to have the people that will invest in that, believe in that, get behind it and create that culture of growth, that culture of winning dedication, absolutely.

Ben Hatta: 38:34

And I think maybe the last lesson I learned, which was maybe even a mind opener and it crosses many paths that I’m in now is Bill Bartner’s story and his story of service right and his story in Vietnam, and how he?

Ben Hatta: 38:48

basically made up blah when he made a pact to God of get me out of Vietnam alive and I will dedicate my life to youth, to helping serve youth. He had no idea like what he was going to do, right, but he knew that he had to uphold that promise to God and when he did, his life turned around and he turned around so many other people’s lives and I think that’s what I took you know the most. Because there’s this new organization not new organization. There’s organization out that’s newly gone, national, uh, called beat the streets, which is this, this wrestling organization that starts wrestling programs in inner cities to underprivileged youth to help them change their life’s trajectory through the sport of wrestling and the life lessons, and they create teams and sponsor the uniforms and mats and they create mentorships and sponsor a youth center and bring in these coaches and all these people to help bring support through this sport. But whether these kids go on to wrestle in high school or whatnot, what they’re doing is they’re changing their lives, they’re getting into a better place, they’re getting them off the streets and around, away from their surroundings that might cause them more harm than good, and they’re learning those lessons that you and I learned through this sport that are invaluable, right? So Bill was that guy.

Ben Hatta: 40:14

Bill took these kids off the mean streets of Akron and saw fighters in them but, like, let’s train these fighters to fight in a sport that will allow you to do it legally and then get you into school and get you into college and, you know, change your life’s trajectory.

Ben Hatta: 40:32

And the fact that he did it, you know and was able to, you know, and those, the kids, were able to change their lives from it I mean, it’s living proof.

Ben Hatta: 40:42

That is an amazing story and I think that’s, I think, one of those lessons in the book that you gave me the monk who sold his Ferrari one of those last years is service right, giving back right. And once you start giving back, you start actually getting more in return. I think Bill saw a million sons that he now had that was loving to death, that he helped save, and they all went on a journey together and did what most people thought was the impossible. So they reaped the rewards together from Bill’s pledge to God. So I think that was a huge lesson and it still carries on today through this organization. Beat the streets of, you know, giving back to youth and giving back to you through this particular sport, but regardless of just dedicating your life to the service you know and fostering that, you know space for young kids to get better or just have an opportunity to do something different, right so?

Ben Hatta: 41:43

yeah it’s great.

Todd Bertsch: 41:45

Wow, this has been great Ben so many life lessons.

Ben Hatta: 41:48

Oh yeah, we haven’t even touched on it. Thank you, Greg. Thank you.

Todd Bertsch: 41:51

Yeah, In general. I’ve had several collegiate athletes on the show and the story is the same right, the leadership lessons that are learned and then brought in to an organization or into their work, into their careers. Yeah, so good. So, yeah, highly recommend people check it out. And you have it now everywhere. So Prime YouTube, yeah, it’s on iTunes.

Ben Hatta: 42:15

It’s out on just go toash of Dynastiescom and you can see and find everything there and I appreciate you for having me on and for watching the series showing up to the premieres. You know, and obviously, being a former wrestler, I’m glad to hear that you enjoyed the stories and you know, I hope that other people outside the sport can understand it and I tried to make the explanation of the actual sport as simple as possible, but not dumbed down for the wrestling fan, but hopefully just any documentary fan can follow along. But it’s really about this journey of these two collective teams that end up being their own sort of characters that you know take each other on and you know what happens when you know you go for greatness and all the other perils and tragedies you have to sort of encounter along the way and overcome. Maybe it’s just an overall encapsulation of just the sport of wrestling. You know whether it’s not about the state of Ohio, it’s not about these two high schools and maybe it’s not even about the sport of wrestling.

Todd Bertsch: 43:28

It’s not about the state of Ohio, it’s not about these two high schools. Maybe it’s not even about the sport of wrestling. Maybe this podcast started off. Maybe it what you do Like. You are a master of your craft. Storytelling is not easy and not everybody can do it well, but you certainly and I love, like you said, you have to be. This is a life like. You are committing three years of your life to this project. You better like it. You better be all in. You got to have your heart and soul in this thing and you know there was nobody better suited, right? Nobody better suited to do this. You’ve lived wrestling your whole life. You’ve done two documentaries already on wrestling and you were in this, you experienced it firsthand. So it was just meant to be and that’s a cool thing right to be able to have that on your mantle and to go through it and to go through it.

Ben Hatta: 44:17

I appreciate that.

Todd Bertsch: 44:19

What’s, and to go through it and to go through it. So what I appreciate what’s next?

Ben Hatta: 44:22

are you going to do another documentary? What what’s? Yeah, we’re working on a couple things. I’ve got a job out in the field that I’m working on for just my side gig for hgtv. That’s coming out this summer. But I’m working on a sports doc based on the ohio state football team’s 2024 national title run and I’m working on a couple of wrestling projects and we mentioned, I think at the very beginning, my father and grandfather’s story, so that’ll be coming down the line sometime.

Todd Bertsch: 44:49

Oh, my gosh Again. I can’t wait. I can’t wait, that’s going to be awesome yeah.

Ben Hatta: 44:54

It’s one of those things you mentioned Probably. Yeah, like you said. One, it’s a long process. Two, sometimes I feel called to do this. I felt called to do Clash of Dynasties because of the group that took part in this battle. I was the only one that went on to do film and television, but I was also in the middle of it. So, telling my family’s story, telling the story of Japanese wrestling, telling my father’s story as the story of japanese wrestling, telling my father’s story, you know, as an artist and as an olympic coach and just a journeyman in the sport and life, um, you know, I feel called and duty to be the one to tell that story. So that’ll be coming down the line. But, yeah, I’m just, I’m looking at new projects.

Ben Hatta: 45:34

I think wrestling has got a great rebirth in these past year, you know, with just there’s new leagues coming out, there is just presence of viewership is expanding and women’s wrestling is helping grow the sport immensely and NIL and college is just getting, you know, just more robust. So I’m excited for where sports going and that was the original thought of doing documentaries to begin with, you know, is to help grow the sport through entertainment, through storytelling, through what I know and do so. If I can do that, you know, by just telling interesting stories and entertaining you know an audience outside of our own audience, then you know we’ve reached our goal. So I appreciate everything. I appreciate you having me and what you’re doing, and I think maybe we didn’t see where wrestling and your podcast fit in, but I think it really did. Your podcast is all about life and going after what you want, and I think so is wrestling, and so is all of these stories, so I appreciate it.

Todd Bertsch: 46:37

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, ben. If you could leave us with one last thought, what would that be?

Ben Hatta: 46:44

Well, it probably came down to what kicked off when I started this series and it’s written on my desk here it was a fortune cookie and it said energy is equal to desire and purpose.

Ben Hatta: 46:57

And in order to have the energy to do anything but what I was particularly taking on, I needed to have a desire to do it. And then I needed to have a purpose to do it. And I felt the purpose of telling the story to others. For even the other team, like the Walsh guys right, they wanted their story told, they felt that they had done the impossible and that this was worthy of people knowing about it. And so I felt a purpose and for telling Bill’s story and for Howard’s story and getting these people that may not know who these people are right and but they’re just good people, good men, and they were doing great things for other young men through a sport. So, and then the desire to do it, and that’s what kept me going Right and that’s what gave me the energy, like every day when I woke up and I was like this is what I got to do today how?

Ben Hatta: 47:48

am I going to do it. It was like, well, I want to do it and there’s a reason for doing it. So that gave me the energy to do it. So if I was going to leave with sort of that last advice that was the beginning advice that I sort of planted, that seed in my head of before you go on this journey.

Ben Hatta: 48:03

It’s going to be a long one. How are you going to keep gas in the tank? How are you going to stay enthusiastic about this? And it was. Energy is equal to desire and purpose.

Todd Bertsch: 48:13

So find your desire, find your purpose, and you’ll have the energy to do the impossible all right brother we’ll just end on that note, because it doesn’t get any better than that well appreciate my friend, appreciate you. Thank you for coming on the bolts. Look forward to watching what else you do in the future and we’ll stay in touch, man absolutely.

Ben Hatta: 48:34

Thank you very much, ty. I appreciate it.

Todd Bertsch: 48:36

Keep up the great work thank you for joining us on this episode of the Bold Podcast. I appreciate you spending some time with us today and it’s been a pleasure being part of your journey toward growth, transformation and leadership. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please like, share and leave a review. It truly helps us reach more people like you, interested in taking your leadership to the next level. Visit toddbirchcom to learn more about my keynote speaking, corporate training programs and my positive intelligence coaching. Look, I’m here to help you build the mental resilience and leadership skills that drive lasting change. And remember progress comes from small, consistent steps. Keep moving forward, my friends.

Todd Bertsch: 49:22

And before we wrap, a quick reminder the information shared on the Bolt Podcast, along with anything from ToddBertsch. com or my social media channels, is for informational and educational purposes only. We all need support and if you’re seeking meaningful guidance, one of the best things you can do is talk to a licensed professional, whether that’s a physician, therapist or coach. They can provide the support and care you deserve. The content on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you’re facing a medical emergency or need immediate assistance, please reach out to the appropriate health care provider or emergency services. Hey guys, take care of yourself, stay kind to your mind and remember help is always available when you need it. Thank you for being here. I appreciate you and we’ll see you next time.