Episode 38 – Networking That Works: Building Real Relationships with Frank Agin

Todd Bertsch: 0:05

Welcome to the Bolt Podcast. I’m Todd Bertsch, keynote speaker, entrepreneur and mental fitness coach. I’m here to help you unlock your leadership potential and ignite your personal growth. On the Bolt, my guests and I will dive into inspiring stories of transformation, showing how small shifts in mindset can lead to life-changing benefits. We’ll explore strategies for overcoming challenges, building high-performance habits and leading with confidence. If you’re ready to embrace a growth mindset and unlock your full potential, then let’s ignite your spark today.

Todd Bertsch: 0:43

Today’s guest is a master connector, a champion of relationship-driven success and someone who’s built an entire career around the power of networking. Frank Agin is the president of AM Spirit Business Connections, where he empowers entrepreneurs, sales professionals and business leaders to grow through meaningful connections and powerful referrals. He’s also the voice behind the NetworkingRx podcast, where he shares strategies, stories and insights to help professionals build authentic relationships that drive success. Frank is also the author of several impactful books and we are so excited to have him on the show today. Listeners, get ready to make some meaningful connections, frank. Welcome to the Bolt Podcast, my today Listeners, get ready to make some meaningful connections, frank. Welcome to the Bold Podcast, my friend.

Frank Agin: 1:27

Thanks for having me. This is great, this is big time.

Todd Bertsch: 1:31

Oh, this is big time. Yeah, people know me, they know I only go 110. Yeah, that’s good so you’ve got to go in or go home right. That’s so good to have you, and it’s so good to have fellow podcasters on the show. Right yeah, you get it.

Frank Agin: 1:46

Yeah, no, I totally do. I tell people I wish I would have started 10 years ago. Some people know of him Lewis Howes. I don’t know if you’ve heard.

Todd Bertsch: 1:55

Yeah, I just got his e-news today.

Frank Agin: 1:57

Okay, yeah, my email’s been lighting up because he was on the Mel Robbins podcast talking about his new book and he mentioned me. And everyone’s like is this you, oh, my God, oh, that’s right, you guys are friends. Yeah, oh yeah, but he reached out to me 2012. He said you need to jump on this podcasting thing.

Todd Bertsch: 2:17

And I’m like, oh, come on.

Frank Agin: 2:17

It’s just another fad, you know, and I’m busy with lots of things and it was just a choice at that point in time I didn’t make, and it wasn’t until 2018 that I’m like, yeah, I really need to get on to this.

Todd Bertsch: 2:26

Well, that’s still though.

Frank Agin: 2:28

You’ve been on it.

Todd Bertsch: 2:29

And how many episodes I just recorded 831.

Frank Agin: 2:32

831. But you know, the best thing about it is just meeting people.

Todd Bertsch: 2:37

Networking.

Frank Agin: 2:38

Yeah, we wouldn’t be talking but for it. Yeah, right, it’s, but for it, you know it’s a value I can share with you and you can share with me and I learn things. I’m here in your studio. It’s like, okay, I don’t know if I’m going to go do this, but I can maybe do that and incorporate that.

Todd Bertsch: 2:53

And it’s interesting the way that we got connected was through networking Yep, jason, yeah. So I met Jason through another connection that we just got talking. He said I think I know a guy that might be a good connection for you. Then we had breakfast and then he brought up your name. I said, oh, I’d like to get connected to Frank.

Frank Agin: 3:09

So the power of networking. Here we are. I met Jason through a woman in Cyprus.

Todd Bertsch: 3:19

We’re all in the state of Ohio, noemi, right? Yeah, she’s great, she’s helped me as well.

Frank Agin: 3:23

Yeah, hey, you need to meet this Jason guy. I’m like, all right, ho hum, she has great connections. Oh yeah, I’m looking. He’s like this guy’s in Ohio. I mean, he’s like down the road, I mean two hours.

Todd Bertsch: 3:32

Yeah, but he’s in Ohio. Yeah Well, I’m excited to talk about networking, one of my favorite things.

Frank Agin: 3:43

Sure.

Todd Bertsch: 3:43

But I want to start off with just a little background. So you went to law school. I did.

Frank Agin: 3:48

You were an attorney for a while yeah, that’s how I ended up in Columbus. I moved there to go to law school. I had no idea where Ohio State was. I had just gotten accepted. I was waitlisted everywhere and got accepted. It was June of 1984. My dad and I drove down, got an apartment and a month later I was in law school. Never thought I would stay in Columbus.

Frank Agin: 4:14

Yeah, and how many years were you a lawyer? Well, I got into a special program at Ohio State, so I got my MBA and law degree at the same time.

Todd Bertsch: 4:32

So that takes four years.

Frank Agin: 4:32

So you cut a year off doing them separately and 88, I actually became a tax consultant with a big six accounting firm which is now PricewaterhouseCoopers, and I worked with them for six years and then decided to leave and go into private practice, and so I was in private practice for maybe about another 10. So I stumbled into all of this.

Todd Bertsch: 4:46

Yeah, so what made the switch? I’m always curious about this life. I mean that’s a big transition. Oh it is. You go to school and you invest this time. Yeah, people thought it was crazy and my dad was like what the hell are you doing? Yeah, oh my God.

Frank Agin: 4:59

Where do we need to check you in? Right, need to check you in Right, right, yeah, you know I started this career in public accounting, which really was a great life by all accounts. It was a you know, great job, great pay. You know glass window, corner office kind of you know all that stuff. Right, that’s it. That’s what you want, yeah, that’s what you aspire to.

Frank Agin: 5:18

But I just didn’t want to do taxes for the rest of my life and it’s a corporate sort of a thing and it’s just of my life and it’s a corporate sort of a thing and it’s just a lot of late nights checking out at the security desk and then getting back early the next morning seeing the same security guard. He’d been there all night. It’s like, oh my gosh. So I decided to leave and go into private practice and I’ll tell you I tell people that a funny thing happened to me when I went into private practice and the funny thing was that nothing happened. I had no idea how to get clients. My dad was a professor. I just assumed that you did well in school, got credentials and people just hired you. And it doesn’t work that way.

Todd Bertsch: 5:56

You just hang a shingle and people are going to come right, Fuck.

Frank Agin: 5:59

Yeah, and it’s complicated as an attorney because you can’t call people. I mean, you can call people but you can’t say hey, I want you know be my client kind of thing.

Todd Bertsch: 6:06

You got to be careful.

Frank Agin: 6:07

Yeah, it’s the quickest way to lose your license. And so I struggled, had a conversation one day with a friend who said well, I asked her. She took a different path. Out of law school, she just started her own firm. And I just said you know how do I get what you’ve got? And she said why don’t you get into a tips club or a leads group? Many people are familiar with the BNI out there. I didn’t know what she was talking about, but at that point I was newly married, quasi-desperate to just become successful, and that’s just what drives us all Sure. And so I went to this organization. It was based out of Pittsburgh. It was very similar to BNI.

Frank Agin: 6:48

The woman who started it was very familiar with Ivan Meisner who started BNI, and it made total sense to me that you could lift your whole world up by helping other people. We’re talking Jason Zagato. We could go on and on. What a great guy, what a great guy. But we can’t sit here as humans Most humans can’t and just self-promote. Some people can, most people can. So the notion of these groups is that you just start bragging about all the people in the room and trust that they’re going to do the same for you and it’s not perfect. It doesn’t work perfectly, but it works reasonably well. So I really doubled down on that experience and became that chapter’s president and we were doing well, our group was doing well, and the woman in Pittsburgh was reaching out to me hey, can you help this group? Can you help this group? I was like, yeah, this is kind of fun.

Frank Agin: 7:40

At one point I had an opportunity to be her first franchisee and Columbus was kind of a sort of a I wouldn’t say a nothing market for her, but it was probably one of her smaller markets. So I became her first franchisee and within a year we were number one. Within three years we were bigger than half her operations and she was getting up in years. She actually passed away about 12 years ago now actually passed away about 12 years ago now. So we executed a buyout and part of the deal was I had to rebrand it. So I branded it as AmSpirit Business Connections.

Frank Agin: 8:11

You as a marketing person will appreciate it was called Network Professionals before, which was something that could not be trademarked because it was too generic, and so that meant I could have people competing against me using my name, and when I was in law school I had come up with the name AmSpirit, which is nothing but a shortened version of American Spirit, and I have a law degree, so I figured out how to trademark it. So I had this trademark. You know it’s mine. I’m going to start building a brand around this, but, yeah, that’s what got me started, and when I ultimately bought her out, I just made a decision that because I was still practicing law a little bit at that point.

Frank Agin: 8:50

That’s when I just okay, I’m stopping to practice the law and people are like you’re what? Yeah, law schools are crapping out attorneys by the thousands every year, me deciding not to be an attorney, no great loss. What I do is very, very unique. I have competitors, I have people who do what I do, but it’s unique and I can kind of put my thumbprints all over this. Yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 9:18

Well, that’s awesome. Well, good for you. Thank you For taking a risk right. I think that’s what we do as business owners. I’m an entrepreneur myself and you have an idea. You see a problem, you go out and you try to solve it, but you are taking a risk, right, if you have a family or starting a family it makes it a little bit more riskier.

Frank Agin: 9:39

Well, I’m sure you probably look at friends who’ve taken different paths and said, oh geez, if I would have taken that. I have some friends from my tax consulting days who’ve done very well for themselves, but I wouldn’t be happy yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 9:52

You know Well, yeah, and I think it goes back to how do you measure success?

Frank Agin: 9:57

How do?

Todd Bertsch: 9:57

you define success.

Frank Agin: 9:58

Yes.

Todd Bertsch: 9:59

So you were at a point where you were kind of burning the midnight oil right, you were working, I don’t know 12, probably 12, 14 hour days you know, and it was just like Groundhog Day and you weren’t really enjoying life. So at what point? Is that success?

Frank Agin: 10:15

right? No, yeah, you’re right, You’re absolutely right.

Frank Agin: 10:17

You know, same day, same chair, same questions, you know it was just, yeah, it was just Groundhog’s’s day right, you’re not really being challenged creatively no um, you’re not out meeting new people, so this is a whole new thing, yeah oh, I mean, yeah, the people I’ve met, you know it’s uh and, and you know, when I sat down with my wife to go through I meant when the opportunity presented itself, becoming a franchisee and then kind of growing into it I told her. I said you know, if I continue down the path of being an attorney, I know where I’ll be 30 years from now and it’s not a bad life. But I know where I’ll be If I take this other path. I have no idea and that just excites me.

Todd Bertsch: 11:02

Oh, isn’t that? It’s just amazing, isn’t that good stuff?

Frank Agin: 11:06

And I’ve had offers early on, because they’re always looking for good tax people.

Todd Bertsch: 11:10

Oh yeah.

Frank Agin: 11:12

People coming out of the woodwork and offering wow, that’s a lot of money. Right, it’s a lot more money I’m making right now. No, I’m not doing it.

Todd Bertsch: 11:20

Yeah, you know what’s funny? It reminds me, frank, of a book that you wrote Getting Out of your Comfort Zone.

Frank Agin: 11:26

Yeah, Right yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 11:27

You can stay cozy.

Frank Agin: 11:29

Yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 11:29

Complacent. Yeah, very prescribed you know, what that’s going to look like the house, the picket fence, the dog spots, couple of kids, nice car. Yeah, Are you happy? Yeah, and some people, that’s fine.

Frank Agin: 11:43

Nothing wrong with that right, yeah, no, yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 11:45

But for some of us Wasn’t me we need to get to the edge. We need to embrace discomfort.

Frank Agin: 11:51

Yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 11:52

Get in that zone. Yeah, you know, that’s where I think real growth happens, in my opinion, so good for you. And how long has that business been running?

Frank Agin: 12:06

Well, the original organization started in 93.

Todd Bertsch: 12:07

So I have members who date back to 93 are still involved in the organization. It’s crazy.

Frank Agin: 12:11

Yeah, One guy met his wife through it, you know three kids. He says, oh, everything to this organization. But I became the first franchisee in 97 and then ultimately bought it out right towards the end of 2003. Okay, yeah, awesome.

Todd Bertsch: 12:25

Well, tell us a little bit about it. How is it different than well? First, I don’t know that everybody knows what BNI is. Sure, that was new to me when I first came out.

Frank Agin: 12:33

It’s funny.

Todd Bertsch: 12:33

That was the first like networking opportunity that somebody said hey you’re a new business owner, like you should join this and. I went to a meeting, tried it, I was like, eh, not for me. Sure, yeah, but then you have Am Spirits. And so tell us a little bit about that, the difference and what it’s all about.

Frank Agin: 12:51

Yeah, what we do is we help create we call them chapters groups of entrepreneurs, sales reps, professionals your realtor, mortgage lender, attorney, accountant and it’s one in each category. And the reason we have one in each category and BNI is much the same. The reason we have one in each category is I want people to feel comfortable talking about their strategies, and we all have strategy. We might not think of them as strategies hey, I’ve got an in here, whatever. I want people to feel comfortable about that and I want people to feel comfortable giving referrals. So if you and I are in a group and there’s three other marketing people there, I’m going to feel funny about giving a referral in front of them. I don’t want to feel that. I want to be hey, I got a great referral for you, todd, he’s a great client. I was talking to them and I think you guys will hit it off. So it’s one per category and they meet every week to learn about each other, develop relationships.

Todd Bertsch: 13:51

Weekly. Oh, okay, that’s a commitment.

Frank Agin: 13:54

It is. It is, but it’s part of their marketing. I mean, you probably advise your clients hey, we need marketing’s, not something we do once a month, you know, it’s something you need to continually. Everything’s got to be marketing, right down to the person at the front desk, and so a lot of people, when they really get ingrained in this, that is their marketing. So it may seem like a lot but you know, once a week they’ve developed relationships or continued to build relationships with people in all these different groups or different business categories. They’re not doing a whole lot of other marketing, they’re just servicing the referrals that they’re getting. So, yeah, it meets every week and the people they become great friends with one another.

Frank Agin: 14:35

Sometimes when I go to groups, I have to remind myself that these people didn’t go to high school together, but they kind of carry on like, hey, this is, you know, we’re all buddies, but the real, I guess, the difference I can’t really say what the difference between us and BNI is because I’ve never been in BNI, but the real focus, what I really try to get people focused on, is referrals. Okay, becoming close to one another is great, but I need to be able to recognize how to. I need to be able to work with you to understand how I can recognize a referral for you when somebody says, X, okay, that’s you right. Okay, Now, what do I say to work you in? Right. And so we work. We do a lot of work with the members in the chapters, just helping them kind of explore that.

Frank Agin: 15:30

When I was an attorney, I knew everything that I did. But for me to say, hey, I’m an attorney, send me people who need attorneys, I’m not going to get referrals. So we try to educate people on one of the things I’ll say to groups, members and groups don’t tell me what you do. Yeah, I know you’re a realtor, I get it. You can say that 16 different ways and it still says the exact same thing. You broker property between buyers and sellers. That doesn’t help me recognize a win. So when you tell me, hey, if you know somebody who’s getting up in years and is sick of challenging the stairs, they’re ripe for selling a house and getting something different. So getting the members to think differently about how they talk and how they share information with one another, and that’s really I don’t want to say that’s a differentiator, but that’s what we’re really passionate about. And if other people, other competitors, want to jump onto that. More power to the world right.

Todd Bertsch: 16:28

Sure Right. Okay, how many people are in a chapter?

Frank Agin: 16:33

Our average chapter size is only about 15 or so.

Todd Bertsch: 16:36

Okay.

Frank Agin: 16:36

They tend to be a little smaller. We and I was telling a chapter of this yesterday. It’s like if Elon Musk moves onto your street, the average income of everybody on the street goes up, but it doesn’t affect your income, right? And so I don’t want the mortgage lender and the realtor just to do a lot of business back and forth and have everyone else not get referrals. I want everybody to get referrals, and so they tend to stay smaller, so we can really focus and make sure everybody’s get referrals, and so we tend to. They tend to stay smaller, so we can really focus and make sure everybody’s getting referrals. Todd, I’ve had groups that have hit 50 and they’re not as productive. You make you know bigger is not better.

Todd Bertsch: 17:17

Right, I know, I wholeheartedly agree. Right, you lose that intimacy, yeah Right.

Frank Agin: 17:22

The group that hit 50,. A month after it hit 50, 10 people came to me and said we want to start our own group. It’s like, really, you worked so hard to get to this point? Yeah, but it’s not. We just don’t know people. People don’t know one another, right, and so they went and started their own group, and when I get chapters that get into the 20s, I really stop pushing on them to grow. Always look for good people, but I don’t need you to be 30. I don’t need you to be 40. I just need you to have the people in it be successful. Oh, and refer me other people and so we’ll start other groups.

Todd Bertsch: 17:57

Right, how many chapters do you have now?

Frank Agin: 18:00

You know I’m always the last to know. I think we’re somewhere between 140 and 150.

Todd Bertsch: 18:08

Oh gosh.

Frank Agin: 18:08

Okay, and then all over the country or in a certain geographic area, a lot in Ohio, but I’ve got chapters down in Mississippi, pensacola. Things are starting to heat up in Alabama, of all places. Talked to a guy who’s moving up to Green Bay, who’s in the organization, he says can you help me start chapters up in Green Bay? Okay, bentonville, arkansas, I mean Colorado. I talk to people. We have a lot going on in Phoenix, a lot going on in Chicago, so it’s little pockets here and there. When I first started I’m like okay, columbus, akron, canton, cleveland. My first franchisee was Akron. It worked great. My second one was Phoenix, arizona. So at that point, I’m like who knows?

Todd Bertsch: 18:43

My second one was Phoenix, Arizona. So at that point I’m like who knows? Right, so not a real strategy to say, hey, we’re going to go hit this area, but if it happens, yeah, I’m going to go where the interest is.

Frank Agin: 18:50

Yep, I’m going to go where people need help.

Todd Bertsch: 18:53

Gotcha. It’s kind of like you.

Frank Agin: 19:15

You know it’s like you serve people who come to you and you can’t worry about the group right people who have that kind of longevity it’s you know it’s the same thing in business You’re best to hang on to your clients as opposed to keep trying to find new ones.

Todd Bertsch: 19:30

Oh yeah, it’s always a lot, always a lot easier, yeah For sure. Well, talking about a couple that you just mentioned the knowing the people right, Just keeping the groups small and you often talk about the importance of know, like and trust. Tell us a little bit about what that means to you in terms of foundational networking.

Frank Agin: 19:50

Yeah, you know people throw those words around know, like and trust. We do business with those who we know, like and trust. But I interviewed a woman on my podcast and it really kind of changed my view of relationships and she shared. She was talking about Margaret Mead. Margaret Mead was a favorite.

Todd Bertsch: 20:05

Oh my gosh, I just included her in a quote that I’m going to be emceeing next week.

Frank Agin: 20:09

Okay, yeah, famous anthropologist.

Todd Bertsch: 20:12

Yeah.

Frank Agin: 20:13

She was teaching a class and one of the students said what was the first sign of human civilization? And as she’s gathering herself, everybody’s thinking okay, it’s fire, it’s clay pots, it’s weeping, maybe it’s language. And she said it was a healed femur. She went on to explain that in the animal world, the femur is the bone that connects the knee to the hip. Most animals have a femur and when an animal breaks its femur it’s a death sentence. It can’t protect itself, it can’t forage, it can’t hunt, it’s going to die, either real quick or painfully slow, but it’s going to die. But when we came across the remains of humans that had a healed femur, we knew there was something different. We knew that somebody made a decision to stay behind because it takes about six to eight weeks without modern medical care for that bone to heal. And so if you stop and think about it and as soon as I, when I heard that on the podcast I had chills going up my spine it’s like oh my gosh, there’s something. I get it now.

Frank Agin: 21:13

So imagine you have two groups of four people and one group somebody breaks their femur and they’re like eh, sorry, todd, sorry about your luck, we’re moving on. Us three are moving on. Well, three is a lot less formidable than four, and you needed people back then to survive, to hunt, to protect yourself. So three is not going to be as successful, ultimately becomes two, which becomes one, and one becomes zero. Right, there’s another group of four people, todd, using you break your femur, it’s like you know what. I don’t can’t put my finger on it, but I am not leaving you. I’m going to figure out, I’m going to stay with you, I’m going to feed you, I’m going to care for you, I’m going to protect you, I’m going to keep you warm. Six to eight weeks later, that group moves forward with four people, which is a third stronger than three, right, but it doesn’t just move forward stronger, it moves forward with somebody who, in this case you, says you know what these people cared about me, I’m going to do the same for them. And so we as humans are just. You know, we didn’t know what we were doing, but the chance of survival, if we worked together, if we cared for one another, was more likely. And so the first group, that gene pool, died. The other gene pool of people caring, that moved forward and we just decided okay, we’re going to become civilizations. We’re going to, you know, larger communities going to become civilizations. We’re going to, you know, larger communities.

Frank Agin: 22:49

And that’s really I tell people. Everybody is looking for somebody who is willing to stay with them when they break their metaphorical femur. Right, it might not be a broken femur, it might be. You know, when you’re choosing a spouse it’s like I want somebody who’s going to, who’s going to be with me when I lose my job or I have that horrible accident or I get older in years. That’s we, it’s you know, that’s really what know like and trust is. Those are the types of people that we want to have. And again and back to my organization. I see it in in in organization, I see it in the organization People they just really care about one another.

Todd Bertsch: 23:30

It’s a great I mean, it’s a beautiful thing. It is, yeah, I think you’re talking about a culture, right? Yeah, creating a culture of care. Yeah, and, and when you see that and it’s funny, frank, I think about COVID yeah, well, really, what I’ve seen and what I’ve experienced personally is that when a group of people can go through a shared experience of call it trauma, I mean we could, I think safely say.

Todd Bertsch: 23:53

COVID was traumatic right. Some sort of an event where there’s going to be some trials and tribulation, where you’re going to be tested, right. It’s going to be tough. You’re going to get. You’re going to have to get out of your comfort zone. You’re going to be uncomfortable. If you can work through that together oh man coming out of that, my group here, that’s in this building out of COVID. We all were together, fighting every day just to get through it right yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 24:24

Yes, it was tough, but boy did it make us a hell of a lot stronger and closer?

Frank Agin: 24:29

Yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 24:29

So I don’t know. I see some similarities there. Oh, absolutely, and in networking, but also just in the culture of companies. How do you build that kind of culture without having to go through something?

Frank Agin: 24:43

dramatic, right, yeah, well, what I tell people is I don’t care about your religion, I don’t care about your politics, I don’t care about who you go to bed with, I don’t care about any of that. You have that DNA running through you. You have that caring gene. We all do. We let money get in the way, and if you can stop and just pull back from that and just for a moment realize, okay, yeah, that person annoys the hell out of me, but they have a family they’re trying to feed and they might be misguided in how they’re doing things, but they’re really just a person like I am, and if I can dig down into my humanity and really lean into, okay, I want to help this person Just a little bit.

Frank Agin: 25:24

Things are going to be better. Really lean into, okay, I want to help this person. You know, I want just a little bit. Right, things are going to be better and we’re hardwired to help one another. You know, you guys stayed while I had a broken femur. I’m going to return that somehow, right, and we don’t consciously think about those things, but our subconscious is really kind of dialed into those sorts of things, those things. But our subconscious is really kind of dialed into those sorts of things. So the whole notion of know, like and trust is, I mean, it’s just rooted in who we are, if we let it.

Todd Bertsch: 25:52

Right, right, we have to be open to it. Yeah, we’ll be right back after this short message. Hey, it’s Todd again. Did you know that mental fitness is the secret weapon for transformational leadership? Your mind may be sabotaging you, leading you down a path of stress and negativity, but it doesn’t have to be this way. If you’re ready to unlock the resilience to empower yourself and the team you lead, listen up. Through the Positive Intelligence Program PQ for short I help leaders build mental strength, manage stress and boost emotional intelligence. Imagine reducing burnout, improving your relationships and increasing performance, all backed by neuroscience. I’m living proof of its power, having built my own mental fitness with PQ over the last five years. Ready to build yours? Visit toddbirchcom or email me at tb at toddbirchcom for a free consultation. Now let’s get back to the show. So, continuing on that path Frank and no like and trust. How do we? How do we, integrate that into networking Right?

Frank Agin: 27:01

Yeah Well, what I tell people is the best way to get things from your network is to do things for your network. I mean, it’s really that simple and a lot of times people think, oh, you have to give to your network and their mind goes to their wallet or their credit card. I really don’t have anything to give. One of the questions I get a lot when I’m on podcasts is what’s the one thing somebody could do today to change their situation? Just to get out there and get networked. And I always tell people my consistent answer is find something you care about and volunteer. Whatever it is, don’t be strategic about it. I don’t care about homelessness, but the rich people are there helping the homeless, so I’m going to go do that. No, what do you care about? If it’s youth sports, if it’s whatever, get out there and volunteer, because you’re going to be elbow to elbow with other people who care about the same thing and they’re going to figure out what you’re about. They’re never going to have to ask what’s that Todd about? They’ll figure that out. And but even the people who aren’t involved in that are going to look on and say, wow, he’s really he. He really does a great job with this sports organization or this, you know, homelessness or pet charity or or whatever it might be. Um, he’s got to be a good person again.

Frank Agin: 28:26

It gets back to this, this healed femur thing. We’re always looking subconsciously we don’t know it, but we’re looking for people who care about other people. And so to be successful in networking is just finding ways you can help other people. You know, jason connecting us, you know that’s it helped me, right, I’m here, right, hopefully it helps you. You know it’s like, okay, what can I do for Jason, right, you know? So it’s really just about finding ways to help other people and whenever you know, as humans we’re kind of dialed into self-preservation.

Frank Agin: 29:01

So a lot of times, people when they meet somebody, it’s like, okay, what can I get from Todd? You know, can I get him to be a client? Can I get him to whatever? What can I sell him? Right? And what I tell people is is that’s your first thought and that makes you human, right. But dial into what your second thought is and that’s it’s really more of a conscious thought of okay, my first thought is, which is very human, is what can I get? The second thought is what can I do for this person and go through your mind and say, okay, who can I connect Todd to that? Maybe Todd can help. Or who can help Todd, how can I serve Todd? And that just becomes much more powerful in the long run, because then you’re starting to build this network of people out there, formally and informally, that feel like, okay, I want to help this person.

Todd Bertsch: 29:53

Right, yeah, it reminds me of. Are you a John Maxwell?

Frank Agin: 29:58

fan.

Todd Bertsch: 29:58

Yeah, he had this powerful phrase One of his shows. He says every conversation that he has networking, meeting somebody new, he ends a conversation with this statement how can I help you? Yeah, how can I help you? Yeah, I help you. And that’s simple, right, it’s?

Frank Agin: 30:17

a simple thing. Well, a lot of people feel put on the spot with respect to that and I’m not always ready either, and that’s okay. I think it’s great that people ask those things. What I try to do is I try to just look and just kind of go through my mind and like, okay, what could, what could help, todd, like you and I were talking before we hit record, hey, I met this guy over in the UK. Right, he’s a marketing person. He’s got a top 10 podcast. Right, todd, I need to introduce you to him, right, you know?

Todd Bertsch: 30:45

So you’re already, you’re already being proactive thinking about that yeah. But not a lot of people are right. I active thinking about that, yeah, but not a lot of people are right? I think that’s at least one reminder, right? Just if you’re not constantly thinking about that. Just think about that question make sure that that at least gets mentioned, if it doesn’t happen organically, yeah, yeah, what can I do? Yeah?

Frank Agin: 31:05

there’s a book out there uh, it’s called option b, cheryl sandberg wrote it with dr adam grant and um. Oh, okay, it’s a great little book. Option B. Option B yeah, she wrote it on the heels of the death of her husband. They were on vacation. I think he was like 45 years old. He was on the treadmill and just had an aneurysm and died.

Todd Bertsch: 31:27

Those stories. I just don’t understand them. Yeah, I can’t fathom.

Frank Agin: 31:32

So she just was kind of working through her grief in there. But I mean, it wasn’t just about that, it was a lot of actionable business stuff. But one of the things she talked about in there that really resonated with me is, when people are hit with these tragedies, we’ll say, hey, tell me what you need, anything you need, I’m here for you, I’m here for you.

Frank Agin: 31:51

And that really kind of puts the onus on them to come up with something right and they don’t, because it’s like, well, yeah, there are things, but I don’t know if I’m going to ask for too much. And so what she says is and I guess this is an option B is just going to the person, just doing something. You know what? I know you lost your spouse. I’m coming over to mow the yard. I’m going to mow the yard this whole summer. If you want me to stop, just tell me. But I’m going to mow the yard or I’m going to arrange for it to be mowed. It’s one thing you don’t need to worry about. And then they don’t have to ask.

Frank Agin: 32:27

So just looking at somebody and saying, okay, what are things that could help this person, and just kind of conditioning your mind to ask that question how can I? They might not have an answer as to how you can help them, but you can probably come up with an answer for them. And a lot of times the best thing we can share in our network is just our network itself. Right? I know this guy in the UK. I know Todd, you know I could be a broker. Right, try and make some money between these two. I could just introduce them and say you guys have at it, right, you know, make, go make a million bucks, I don’t care, yeah, so I absolutely love that frank, especially in that situation right because you have somebody who is obviously grieving, but they’re probably inundated with a ton of decisions and choices they need to make.

Frank Agin: 33:15

This is one more.

Todd Bertsch: 33:16

So you’re in fact burdening them you’re adding more stress and anxiety to them. Just do something. Send them a gift, a gift basket you know, or some fruit, or make them dinner or just pop over. What’s the worst thing that’s going to happen?

Frank Agin: 33:33

Yeah, right.

Todd Bertsch: 33:34

Every little thing’s going to help, right. I love that. I think it goes back to a couple things we’re saying here being proactive just being proactive In order to do some of these things. I think it’s key and tell me if you agree. You have to take the time to get to know somebody, right? You generally?

Frank Agin: 33:52

need to take the time to get to know somebody, right you?

Todd Bertsch: 33:53

generally need to take the time to get to know somebody right, really understand who they are, what they do, what they care about, before you can have that thought of being proactive.

Frank Agin: 34:05

Oh yeah it’s. It’s definitely an investment you need to make in other people Investment.

Todd Bertsch: 34:08

Yeah.

Frank Agin: 34:09

Investment. It’s in well and it’s not necessarily a lot of time. It’s just it’s listening to little things. Like you are on my podcast. I love your story and I’ve shared your story. I was talking to a woman yesterday in Chicago and she’s kind of into just mindfulness and stuff like that and it’s you kind of hang on to those things. Our brains are really amazing because we can hang on to low. You really remember everything.

Todd Bertsch: 34:40

It’s recalls the problem right, yes, recall is the problem. It recalls the problem.

Frank Agin: 34:44

It’s my problem, yeah, but if you listen for little things, you know, okay, here’s the, here’s the trigger point. I just connected two people last week. It’s like, okay, they’re both very spiritual and they’re both really focused in on not cures but people who are going through struggles with cancer Totally different things, but it’s like you know you two need to meet. I don’t know where it’s going to go. It’s not for me to judge and look into the future and say, okay, this is what’s going to happen. I just know you guys are going to have a wonderful conversation because you’re both really rooted in Christianity and you really care about people who are struggling with cancer. You guys figure out. You figure out where the synergy is what happens from this out, where the synergy is.

Frank Agin: 35:31

What happens from those?

Todd Bertsch: 35:33

Right. Yeah, it’s interesting. I think a lot of this too comes back to time. A lot of people say, well, I hate networking. I hate to network. It’s too much time, I don’t get anything out of it or they’re an introvert right and they’re just not a people person, so to speak. So, what do you say to somebody who’s an introvert and or is ho-hum about the time that’s going to be spent networking? Any tips, tricks?

Frank Agin: 36:04

Yeah, I mean, I’m an introvert, I would never have guessed yeah. No, I mean it’s. Yeah. I think introverts have an advantage because introverts are listeners.

Todd Bertsch: 36:16

I knew you were going to say that.

Frank Agin: 36:17

Yeah, and I think that’s you know. I deal with extroverts and it’s like every question is a setup for a monologue for them. You know what I mean. Yeah, it can be, yeah, right, and so I think introverts really have an advantage. I get what you’re saying about people saying, well, networking can be a waste of time. My pushback is everyone networks, we all network. You know how’d you meet your wife, right? How do you guys find babysitters? We’re always networking. Networking is just a word that we use to describe building relationships. So we’re always building relationships. We need to build relationships. So we’re always building relationships. We need to build relationships. You don’t need to go to a networking event to do that. You can have a one-on-one. You know you and I are networking right now. Right, sending emails that we’re networking.

Frank Agin: 37:09

I’m not entirely comfortable going to networking events either. In fact, I’ve interviewed a few introverts on my podcast who’ve made a business out of helping other introverts, and this one woman she just shared. You know what. I’ll go to an event. I’ll stay for 30 minutes. It’s two hours. I’ll go 30 minutes. I’ll meet a couple of people. I’m out of there, okay. So you know, I think we all do it. We’re all networking. It might be with our neighbor. We all do it, we’re all networking. It might be with our neighbor, it might be with whomever. So don’t feel like you need to, don’t feel like you need to be going to networking events. Well, I’ve already said you know, just volunteer, I mean that’s huge. Right there. I know people who that’s pretty much what they do. They’ve just met a ton of people just being out there. They don’t feel like they’re networking because they’re. They’re working shoulder to shoulder with other people who care about pets or whatever.

Todd Bertsch: 37:55

Right, yeah. Yeah, you still need to take the time, though, right, you have to at least put yourself out there, yeah, and you have to get to know people, but I love the piece about being an active listener. Being an active listener and I think that goes back to being able to just pause, right, instead of coming in hot or reacting just being able to sit back, take it in, reflect, listen and, again, don’t make it all about yourself, right.

Todd Bertsch: 38:24

And then think about what you can do to help them and I know you’re a big fan, I’ve heard you mention it. I’m a big fan as well of the Go-Giver, yeah, so we got to give a shout out to Bob Berg and that amazing book and that you know servant leadership. So how do you think that plays into networking?

Frank Agin: 38:42

Well, I mean it’s, I mean it’s again. If we got to help people, you’ve got to. You’ve got to. You got to find ways to help people and Bob, bob will tell you. But you know, shout out to bob. Have you ever had bob on your show?

Todd Bertsch: 38:56

I’m. I hope to at some point.

Frank Agin: 38:58

I haven’t reached out yet, but I’m telling you right now, he will say yes yeah, well I? I’m pretty sure he’ll say yes, that would be drop my name to say hey, I was talking to frank agan and, uh, because I was coming up on my 100th episode, I’m like what am I going to do for my hundredth episode? And he just happened to. Oh, linkedin suggested I connect with him.

Frank Agin: 39:20

I’m like yeah, you know, I met Bob in the nineties when he was first getting started through the other organization. We met in Youngstown. He gave a speech there and I just sent him a note and said, hey, would you connect with me? We met in Youngstown. You know, blah, blah, blah gave him the context and right away it’s like oh yeah, great Love to connect with you. And so I’m sitting there thinking my 100th episode. You know, my daughter helped me get started. Maybe I’ll have my daughter on. She’s like why do you want to talk to me? And I’m like you know, Right.

Frank Agin: 39:56

And he could have been more gracious. Absolutely, let’s do it and set it up and you know, I’m like, hey, do you know?

Todd Bertsch: 40:03

anybody else who would want to be on here?

Frank Agin: 40:05

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely do. You know, by the end of the week I had six other people who were you know good people. It really week, I had six other people you know good people it really changed the trajectory of what I was doing. Oh, really yeah, rather than just interviewing. You know my members, which are. They’re good people, but you know it’s. You know I’m dealing with people who are bob berg level, lewis house level right type people.

Frank Agin: 40:24

That’s a different, yeah, it’s a different level yeah, rather than just talking to people about networking, it’s like okay, really getting into it, right? Yeah, that kind of took us off track with the whole Bob Berg.

Todd Bertsch: 40:35

That’s okay, but it’s worth it? Yeah, no, I just yeah but he’s all about.

Frank Agin: 40:40

My point with respect to Bob is he walks the talk.

Todd Bertsch: 40:42

Yeah.

Frank Agin: 40:43

I know a lot of people out there have written a lot of books on networking and I’ll get them on the phone and interview them, and it’s you know, hey, thanks for helping me, frank. Here are six other ways you can help me, right? It’s like, oh, okay, yeah, I’m happy to, I don’t have a problem with that, but it’s you know, I can see that it’s really all about you, whereas with respect to Bob, he’s just always been very gracious with you know, responding, and you know, genuinely, you know, he’ll tell people. Frank’s the expert on networking. What are you talking about? You’re the expert, you know. Right, I appreciate it, but it’s you know, he’s just a wonderful person.

Todd Bertsch: 41:21

Yeah, serving leadership. Yep the Go-Giver if you don’t have it. Yeah, it should be a staple book on yourself right.

Frank Agin: 41:27

Yeah, well, there’s a whole Go-Giver for Salespeople, goal-giver for Marriage. Yeah, yeah, it’s amazing.

Todd Bertsch: 41:33

I haven’t read any of the other ones.

Frank Agin: 41:34

No, I haven’t either, but yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 41:37

I give that book out more than probably any other book yeah. So we got to talk about LinkedIn a little bit. Yep, obviously, I think a lot of people will associate networking to some degree with LinkedIn. Yeah, what’s your take on LinkedIn as a tool for networking?

Frank Agin: 41:54

Well it is. It’s just a tool. People will say to me yeah, networking, you don’t LinkedIn, we don’t need to do it anymore. It’s like, yeah, you know what? We networked before we had Telegraph, we had network. We networked before we did telephone, had telephone, mobile phones. We’ve networked since the beginning of time. I have a friend. He says networking is as old as dirt, and he’s right. It’s been around. You know, healed femur, that’s networking, right.

Frank Agin: 42:22

That just goes back to when we were nomadic, right. All LinkedIn has done is it allowed us to connect with people 24 hours a day across the continent. I’m going to be on a program in two weeks out of Australia, a guy I’ve met through LinkedIn. Now the time is kind of wonky, right, and we have to work that out that we got to. You know, most of the time he’s asleep, I’m awake, and vice versa. There are pockets there, we can make it work and we do a lot of things together, but LinkedIn has really allowed us to connect with people.

Frank Agin: 42:59

So what I say about LinkedIn is this is that it’s really a giant business after hours Millions of people going 24 hours a day, seven days a week and it allows you to walk into a scenario and know what people are about.

Frank Agin: 43:14

So, for example, I’m introduced to you, I can get on LinkedIn and I know, okay, he’s got a podcast, this, this and this. I know those things, whereas when I walk into a traditional networking event, I might see you and see you with your Ignite, your Spark t-shirt, and make all sorts of judgments about oh, what the hell is that? Is that a women’s basketball team? I don’t know right, but now I know. So I know, okay, like with Jason Zagato, oh, he went to Kent State, okay, and there were just lots of little things there that I knew ahead of talking to Jason that could be talking points. So that’s the beauty of LinkedIn, but relationships are still relationships. I always tell people babies still come from the same place, right? So none of that has changed. It just allows us the ability to connect with people further and faster.

Todd Bertsch: 44:09

Yeah, have you seen that? It’s been a good tool for you in making meaningful relationships.

Frank Agin: 44:17

Oh, absolutely.

Todd Bertsch: 44:18

Yeah absolutely. Because I would imagine, you probably get a ton of requests like I do. I get a ton of in-mails and requests from all over the world, and it’s time right, it’s time to go through each one of those and figure out. Do I even try? To engage in a conversation with this person or not, because again it goes back to just time.

Frank Agin: 44:38

Yeah, no, I mean, you have to be very judicious with your time with respect to that, and anymore, I’ll quickly vet somebody. Hey, I’m a podcast promotion expert. Well, I know where this is going, right. Right, I’m going to connect with you and then I’m going to get pitched and I don’t need that. But with a lot of people, you start to sort it out, to be able to sort it out, okay, I’m looking for somebody that I can help, that is going to help me and you can start to sort those things out. But, yeah, I’ve gotten things through there.

Frank Agin: 45:21

Nobody buys anything on LinkedIn Nobody. Hey, we’re going to hire Evolve. We saw a post, right, and I shouldn’t say nobody, because I had a conversation. I had a woman on my interview where she said that she has gotten clients just off of LinkedIn. But as we talked about it, it was like, okay, it wasn’t off of LinkedIn. You guys are shooting messages back and forth. You did some programs shooting messages back and forth and she decided to hire you, but there was a relationship that was established. But there was a relationship that was established. Nobody, linkedin. People look at LinkedIn as this kind of this advertising vehicle, and it’s not. It’s a vehicle for creating relationships.

Frank Agin: 46:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely so what is one strategy that people often overlook when they’re trying to generate more referrals? Well, I mentioned volunteering. I got ahead of myself there, but, yeah, I certainly mentioned volunteering. Finding ways to help other people is really what it boils down to. I did this exercise years ago. Actually, one of my books out there is called the Giving Journal very short book and it was an offshoot of just something I had tried.

Frank Agin: 46:37

Somebody remarked to me oh, I’m really, really generous, I’m always generous, and I’m thinking to myself that SOB is anything, but You’re the most tight. I’m not saying this, but I’m thinking you’re not generous, you don’t give to people. But in this person’s mind, they were fixated on money they had given to church and they were just hanging their hat on this one thing, and we’re all delusional that we’re better than we are. And so it got me thinking. I wonder if I’m like that. I don’t wanna be that, want to truly be a giver. And so what I set out to do was just keep track of what I was giving, and so I just got a simple little notebook and I would write down right, hey, spend an hour mentoring Jason on his business, right?

Todd Bertsch: 47:26

So it wasn’t just fiscally, it was time talent.

Frank Agin: 47:30

Yeah, None of it was fiscal.

Todd Bertsch: 47:31

Well, some of it might have been right.

Frank Agin: 47:32

But most of what we do is, hey, I’m volunteering, I went to a board meeting, I’m giving, send somebody a book, send somebody an article, introduce these two people. And what I found was I would just write the date. I wasn’t keeping score. Oh, todd, you’ve done a lot for Todd and he gets them. It wasn’t bad at all, right, right, nobody knew I was even doing it, and so I just write the date.

Frank Agin: 47:57

And what I did, what I found, was that journal called to me oh, you haven’t done something in a couple of days. I need to do something. And that really got me thinking about okay, it got me in tune to and whenever I talk to somebody, okay, what can I do for that person. And it just kind of got me in that little habit of, okay, how can I help somebody? And, yeah, it does take time. I’ll have a conversation with somebody and I might have 15 minutes afterwards. Okay, I’m sending them this article. They didn’t work. You know they’d never heard about the healed femur story. Let me send them a link to that. You know, doing things, heard about the healed femur story. Let me send them a link to that doing things. But it really builds up, but I guess the big thing I’ll say is this there’s a book out there called Give and Take by Adam Grant. I don’t know if you’ve read that book.

Todd Bertsch: 48:42

No.

Frank Agin: 48:42

Okay, he’s a Wharton School professor and he talks about different giving styles and it’s a wonderful book. I will send you an outline to it. I’ve read it so many times. I outlined it. It’s like 15 pages, so you don’t get the stories, but you’ll get the gist.

Todd Bertsch: 48:56

Yeah, maybe that’ll the cliff notes.

Frank Agin: 48:58

Yeah, cliff notes, but he talks in there about the five-minute favor. Okay, always be willing to do a five-minute favor for somebody. Yeah, it’s five minutes, but it might be hours into theirs, you don’t know.

Todd Bertsch: 49:12

Five-minute favor. Yeah, just a five-minute favor. I’ve never heard of it.

Frank Agin: 49:16

Yeah, always be willing to just give somebody five minutes. So I was doing some research for a speech I was giving and I saw a study that he’d referenced in the book and I just emailed him or maybe it was LinkedIn, whatever I just sent him a message. He might respond, he might not, but I’m going to ask him, right, yeah, hey, you know, can you tell me where I could get this, the abstract for this study, or where I could, you know, get more information on this? Oh, I’ll do you one better. He gave me the whole damn study, you know. Again, five minutes.

Frank Agin: 49:47

It was really easy for him. He just did it and you know, we just need to be open to just, yeah, let’s just do. I’m just going to do something for somebody. You know, I’m going to make a point of holding the door open for people. I’m going to make a point of doing this. I’m going to just little things, and those little things lead to bigger things. You know, we just kind of become habitual and it’s like, you know, holding the door. I’m going to have a conversation with this person too.

Todd Bertsch: 50:15

Yeah, I love it. Five-minute favor the giving journal.

Frank Agin: 50:20

Love great idea.

Todd Bertsch: 50:21

I have a little bullet journal I created and I have a little section. I call it the mission Right. It’s more related to giving.

Frank Agin: 50:29

Yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 50:30

You know more nonprofits time talents, but that’s interesting to have one specifically for giving and just document it. Yeah, keep track of it.

Frank Agin: 50:41

Yeah Well, the Giving Journal is just kind of my journey into coming up with the notion of it. It’s not really a journal to write in. I thought about doing that, but it’s like, yeah, I don’t want to be just selling paper to people.

Todd Bertsch: 50:51

Yeah, go get your own notebook. Yeah, true, doing that. But it’s like, yeah, I don’t want to be just selling paper to people.

Frank Agin: 50:54

Yeah, go get your own notebook. Yeah, true, that’s true. Yeah, um, and it’s free. I have it on my blog and people can download it. So, okay, people can buy it too if they want a physical copy, but if you just, it’s on my blog okay, so we’ll.

Todd Bertsch: 51:04

We’ll add that in the show notes. Okay, yeah, for sure. Well, this has been great, frank, I’ve. Thank you, appreciate your time. A couple of lightning round questions here, real quick ones. If you can go back and give your younger self any advice, what would that be?

Frank Agin: 51:21

Yeah, I mean, it’s networking. I went off to college to play football, hung out small D3 school hung out with the football players for four years. God, I wish I would have just connected with other people, you know.

Todd Bertsch: 51:35

Right Go back in time. Yeah, who is a leader that you admire?

Frank Agin: 51:43

I admired Lewis Howes. Lewis is somebody that he calls me his mentor. I’ve learned a lot from him. You know we had lunch years and years ago and I tell people that the ROI on that lunch for both of us is just off the charts yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 52:00

That’s awesome. And one word that defines your leadership style.

Frank Agin: 52:08

Empathetic, empathetic. I thought you might go there. I was thinking it Okay.

Todd Bertsch: 52:12

About you Cool. Empathetic, I thought you might go there. I was thinking it Okay About you Cool. I love that. And what’s the most important lesson you’ve learned in life?

Frank Agin: 52:22

I don’t know everything. I don’t know everything and I want to know more. You know I just I don’t want to be that old codger you know, Right. So I just want to keep learning and yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 52:32

There’s a quote up there on the bolt wall from one of my past guests and good friend, mark Majors says if you’re not learning, you’re not living. Yeah, I love it, yeah, and that’s just it. You got it. You got to keep growing. Yeah, you got to keep growing.

Frank Agin: 52:47

Yeah, it’s like a tree. It’s like a tree grows until it dies, that’s right, my last name’s Birch. Yeah, there you go. Not spelled like it.

Todd Bertsch: 52:55

No, this has been great Frey. Thank you so much for being on the show. I wish you the best of luck. Thank you. We’ll include links to the show notes. Your business, your book, Eight books Frank has written. I didn’t realize it was that many when I started doing a little more research. I’m going to be cranking out some books.

Frank Agin: 53:09

Yeah, I’ve got lots more coming out.

Todd Bertsch: 53:10

So, yeah, keep going so yeah, you’re constantly just putting stuff out there, creating, and it sounds like you’re happy.

Frank Agin: 53:19

I am yeah, I’ve got friends who are retiring, I’ve got no interest. Same here. Yep, no interest, no.

Todd Bertsch: 53:26

And when you love what you do, why?

Frank Agin: 53:29

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it’s not about the money, it’s just. I’m most happy when I’m creating something or helping people.

Todd Bertsch: 53:37

Right, that’s it. There is something in the mind that gives you that instant boost of dopamine right when you help somebody.

Frank Agin: 53:47

I think it’ll help both of us long term, cognitively, physically. So yeah, I’m waiting for my 100th birthday. I’m going to keep going, awesome, yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 54:00

Looking forward to continuing the conversation. Frank, yeah, absolutely.

Frank Agin: 54:04

Thanks for being on the show. Thank you.

Todd Bertsch: 54:05

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Bold Podcast. I appreciate you spending some time with us today and it’s been a pleasure being part of your journey toward growth, transformation and leadership. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please like, share and leave a review. It truly helps us reach more people like you, interested in taking your leadership to the next level. Visit toddbirchcom to learn more about my keynote speaking, corporate training programs and my positive intelligence coaching. Look, I’m here to help you build the mental resilience and leadership skills that drive lasting change. And remember, progress comes from small, consistent steps. Keep moving forward, my friends. Moving forward, my friends.

Todd Bertsch: 54:54

And before we wrap, a quick reminder the information shared on the Bolt Podcast, along with anything from ToddBertsch. com or my social media channels, is for informational and educational purposes only. We all need support and if you’re seeking meaningful guidance, one of the best things you can do is talk to a licensed professional, whether that’s a physician, therapist or coach. They can provide the support and care you deserve. The content on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you’re facing a medical emergency or need immediate assistance, please reach out to the appropriate healthcare provider or emergency services. Hey guys, take care of yourself, stay kind to your mind and remember help is always available when you need it. Thank you for being here. I appreciate you and we’ll see you next time.